A few rules queries that would be good to have clarified before the tournament, and particularly before army lists are due in. Would you believe not one affects my army, but they do affect the armies my mates are bringing (and I’m sure other people’s). I’ve tried to add a neutral balance of the arguments for and against, but it’s all down to how you want to rule it.
Q1) Flying Monstrous Creatures (FMCs from now on): can they deepstrike in swoop mode ?
They must declare flight mode (swooping/gliding) when they enter play (FMC rules), but swooping has the requirement to move 12” in the movement phase. There is no specification that deepstriking fulfils the 12” movement requirement, and for daemons (the army most affected) the fluff is them appearing from the warp.
Basically can the FMC choose a flight mode, that they can not fulfil the requirement for ?
Another argument is that if a rule forces you to move in a certain way it is ignored on the turn you enter play. Counter argument is that swooping is a choice.
Forums (ie. the internet’s tiny vocal minority of gamers) seem split on the issue.
Q2) Can Vehicles / Jetbikes move flat-out / turbo boost on the turn they deepstrike ?
The deepstriking rules state that you can shoot or run on the shooting phase. Now you can run, turbo-boost or go flat-out instead of shooting, but then why did GW specify “shoot or run”. If you can turbo-boost or go flat-out why specifiy that you can run.
Another argument is that turbo-boosting and going flat-out is a type of run for jetbikes and vehicles respectively. Will we see the cinematic deepstriking and going flat-out landraiders, or DE raiders deepstriking and strafing the enemy 18” away in a single turn ?
Q3) How do you play zooming flyers that deepstrike ?
I’m assuming common sense prevails and they do not move after deepstriking, and they also do not crash for not moving at least 18”
Q4) Are grounded monstrous creatures still only hit on 6’s ?
Some are arguing that being grounded only means you can be assaulted. Good counter argument is that when grounded you change from a “Swooping” FMC to a “Grounded” FMC and being hit on 6’s is only if you are a swooping FMC.
Either they stay hard to hit and can be grounded multiple times, or they are grounded once and are hit normally after that; your call.
Q5) Which Daemon rule do daemons use (the rulebook, which gives 5+ inv save and fear, or the codex which gives immune to instant death) ?
Fear was given to all daemons via the FAQ so is not an issue, the big issue is that the updated daemon profiles gave the daemons no save.
Daemonic assault which was part of the codex daemon’s daemon rule was FAQed to be given to all units in the codex daemon book.
This question mainly affects screamers and flamers which after the WD update will only be limited by how many the daemon players could buy and paint up in time
_____________________________________
If you could post up your rulings before the army list deadline this week that would be great so my mates (and others reading) can finalise their lists. As always it matters most that there is a consistant ruling for the tournament rather than the exact ruling. You’re the TO what ever you want rules.
NB: I’ve cross posted this to the blog and forum so you get it asap.
Apologies for the delay...been on hols, and come pack to a large pile of emails!
1) Yes they can. The act of Deep-striking is assumed to cover the minimum movement requirements, though they can move no further in that movement phase after being placed and scattered.
2) Yes they can. Deep-striking flyers may also run 2D6"
3) See 1...same ruling applies
4) Tricky...the rulebook does not specify the loss of the "Swooping" status, but does specify loss of Jink, and Assualt immunity. I would say they are still 6's to hit. Shall state as such in the FAQ
With regards to the Daemon rule, I take it the codex rules also apply, and that the ruling above is for the new units from the WD update? I ask as the codex Daemon rule covered Daemonic Assult (deploy via deep strike) invunerable (no instant death and save as per profile e.g could be a 4++) and Daemonic Rivalry (Deamon characters can not join units of other Gods).
Hehe, only got 4 of the 5 rules queries to go your way :)
Daemonic Assault was FAQed to be given to all models in the daemon codex.Daemonic Rivalry is a separate rule, not part of being a daemon. You can't have the codex rule or screamers and flamers have no save at all as per the White Dwarf update. You can't have the 5+ inv save of the 6th edition rulebook and the (effectively) eternal warrior of the daemon codex.
It seems silly to give screamers and flamers no save, but I'm sure Pete will clarify if I'm wrong.
Can a Farseer cast fortune on Dark Eldar Battle brother units?
ReplyDeleteHi Pete,
ReplyDeleteA few rules queries that would be good to have clarified before the tournament, and particularly before army lists are due in. Would you believe not one affects my army, but they do affect the armies my mates are bringing (and I’m sure other people’s). I’ve tried to add a neutral balance of the arguments for and against, but it’s all down to how you want to rule it.
Q1) Flying Monstrous Creatures (FMCs from now on): can they deepstrike in swoop mode ?
They must declare flight mode (swooping/gliding) when they enter play (FMC rules), but swooping has the requirement to move 12” in the movement phase. There is no specification that deepstriking fulfils the 12” movement requirement, and for daemons (the army most affected) the fluff is them appearing from the warp.
Basically can the FMC choose a flight mode, that they can not fulfil the requirement for ?
Another argument is that if a rule forces you to move in a certain way it is ignored on the turn you enter play. Counter argument is that swooping is a choice.
Forums (ie. the internet’s tiny vocal minority of gamers) seem split on the issue.
Q2) Can Vehicles / Jetbikes move flat-out / turbo boost on the turn they deepstrike ?
The deepstriking rules state that you can shoot or run on the shooting phase. Now you can run, turbo-boost or go flat-out instead of shooting, but then why did GW specify “shoot or run”. If you can turbo-boost or go flat-out why specifiy that you can run.
Another argument is that turbo-boosting and going flat-out is a type of run for jetbikes and vehicles respectively. Will we see the cinematic deepstriking and going flat-out landraiders, or DE raiders deepstriking and strafing the enemy 18” away in a single turn ?
Q3) How do you play zooming flyers that deepstrike ?
I’m assuming common sense prevails and they do not move after deepstriking, and they also do not crash for not moving at least 18”
Q4) Are grounded monstrous creatures still only hit on 6’s ?
Some are arguing that being grounded only means you can be assaulted. Good counter argument is that when grounded you change from a “Swooping” FMC to a “Grounded” FMC and being hit on 6’s is only if you are a swooping FMC.
Either they stay hard to hit and can be grounded multiple times, or they are grounded once and are hit normally after that; your call.
Q5) Which Daemon rule do daemons use (the rulebook, which gives 5+ inv save and fear, or the codex which gives immune to instant death) ?
Fear was given to all daemons via the FAQ so is not an issue, the big issue is that the updated daemon profiles gave the daemons no save.
Daemonic assault which was part of the codex daemon’s daemon rule was FAQed to be given to all units in the codex daemon book.
This question mainly affects screamers and flamers which after the WD update will only be limited by how many the daemon players could buy and paint up in time
_____________________________________
If you could post up your rulings before the army list deadline this week that would be great so my mates (and others reading) can finalise their lists. As always it matters most that there is a consistant ruling for the tournament rather than the exact ruling. You’re the TO what ever you want rules.
NB: I’ve cross posted this to the blog and forum so you get it asap.
Regards
Rob
Apologies for the delay...been on hols, and come pack to a large pile of emails!
ReplyDelete1) Yes they can. The act of Deep-striking is assumed to cover the minimum movement requirements, though they can move no further in that movement phase after being placed and scattered.
2) Yes they can. Deep-striking flyers may also run 2D6"
3) See 1...same ruling applies
4) Tricky...the rulebook does not specify the loss of the "Swooping" status, but does specify loss of Jink, and Assualt immunity. I would say they are still 6's to hit. Shall state as such in the FAQ
5) Daemons have 5++ and Fear.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the update.
With regards to the Daemon rule, I take it the codex rules also apply, and that the ruling above is for the new units from the WD update? I ask as the codex Daemon rule covered Daemonic Assult (deploy via deep strike) invunerable (no instant death and save as per profile e.g could be a 4++) and Daemonic Rivalry (Deamon characters can not join units of other Gods).
C
Yes, though I need to confirm with Eternal Warrior loss, as that seems to be in line with Tyranids losing it from Synapse rules in 5th.
ReplyDeleteI am updating the FAQ with the rest now, hopefully will confirm the rest tomorrow!
Hehe, only got 4 of the 5 rules queries to go your way :)
ReplyDeleteDaemonic Assault was FAQed to be given to all models in the daemon codex.Daemonic Rivalry is a separate rule, not part of being a daemon. You can't have the codex rule or screamers and flamers have no save at all as per the White Dwarf update. You can't have the 5+ inv save of the 6th edition rulebook and the (effectively) eternal warrior of the daemon codex.
It seems silly to give screamers and flamers no save, but I'm sure Pete will clarify if I'm wrong.
Rob